The Realism of Governing and the ‘22 Midterms with Councilman Chi Ossé

INTERVIEW WITH CHI OSSE

Dennis Futoryan  00:20

Good afternoon. I'm Dennis Futoryan and this is The 25th Hour helping you stay on top of everything that happened beyond the 24/7 news cycle. As the world turned upside down with the COVID pandemic, protests over the debts of George Floyd, Breonna Taylor, and so many others, upended and exacerbated an already-inflamed societal tension, which led to many members of Gen-Z to wonder how they can affect social change. Welcome Chi Ossé, the youngest member of the City Council's class of lawmakers, who was fed up and launched his campaign on Juneteenth without any prior political experience, and went on to beat back establishment candidates to represent the 36th District encompassing Bed-Stuy, and North Crown Heights in Brooklyn. Chi hit the ground running using his experience as a founder of the activist collective Warriors in the Garden, to harness the energy of his community to fight for social change and today, we talk to him about his now increased experience as a New York City legislator, how his ambitions meet the realities of governing, as well as his thoughts on the current political climate.

Dennis Futoryan  01:14

Councilman Chi Ossé, thank you so much for joining us on The 25th Hour news. I really appreciate your time today.

Chi Ossé  01:21

Thank you so much for having me, Dennis. It's a privilege and an honor to be here speaking to you.

Dennis Futoryan  01:25

You humble me, sir, you humble me. Thank you. It's been some time now that you know, since you've been elected into your current seat, you don't have any previous legislative experience. I think that many regular day to day New Yorkers look up to you when, you know, they wonder if they could just run for public office, quote unquote, out of the blue, so to speak. So, now that it's been some time, how have you balanced so far the day to day realities of legislating versus still trying to accomplish the ambitious goals that you set for yourself during the campaign?

Chi Ossé  02:02

Absolutely. I mean, that's a great question. You know, I ran on a pretty broad progressive platform in terms of some of the issues and policies that I advocated for. Whether it was, you know, a Green New Deal for New York City, whether it was a full re-imagination of what public safety looks like and you know, obviously, that's those are still issues that I'm still very enthusiastic about, and would love to complete, within my term, or within my time in office, maybe not so much my term but, you know, I've had to confront the reality of, you know, being in an institution such as the City Council, and I'm sure too many of your listeners that know how politics works and how government works. They shouldn't be surprised as well. But in many ways, I wasn't surprised in terms of how, what maybe slow slash ambitious by my platform was when I was running for office. But I digress. You know, when I got into the council, you know, I think it gave me a better perception of what the landscape looked like in terms of political ideology. I remember a lot of people were talking about this next class of council members being, you know, the most progressive class of council members elected and I think that was a little too good to be true and I think the press really wanted to pick that up. You know, and while you know, I think many people may see a lot of the things that I ran on to be ambitious, and maybe in some ways, unachievable. I think what I've done in the 11 months that I've been in office, is laid down the groundwork for, you know, the issues that I ran on. 

So, for example, you know, talking about public safety through a different lens that did not, or I guess it's not just solely pertaining to, you know, investing in cops and having, you know, more law enforcement and incarceration on our streets. Throughout my time in office, both through my local budget of you know, capital funds and discretionary funds, we've invested in things that you know, what I believe to be alternatives to public safety, whether it's, you know, Cure Violence Organizations, whether it's nonprofits that do outreach for folks that are struggling with addiction, within my power, as a council member, however big or small, you see that power to be, I've been practicing what I preach, and, you know, showing this type of leadership that this community has never seen, that speaks to, I guess, the platform that I ran on. 

So, even if it's not, you know, the citywide legislative changes, you know, that I ran to do. You know, I'm still doing that work on a local level and even, you know, legislative speaking, I ran on a platform where I was, you know, saying that I was going to combat the rodent crisis in New York City, and just last week, we passed my second bill with a couple of other council members called the rat action plan which is, you know, initially taking the first steps to make a dent in our rodent population and laying down the groundwork again, for you know, hopefully seeing a decrease in rats in the city. So, you know, it's 11 months in office, I'm a freshman legislator. You know, while you know, there are so many more things that I want to get done. I think I've really done as much as I possibly could do, but also speaking to, you know, the promises that I made to my constituents, but also letting them know that there's a lot more work that I need to be doing. I just need more time.

Dennis Futoryan  05:43

I remember you talking about the rat problem, even before you were elected, you know, so it is good to know that on your platform, that's exactly what you're paying attention to is not just the ambitious goals, you know, talking about defunding the police, or at least making some sort of change to our current system so that it's more equitable, but you're also talking about sanitation and now, everyone says that once you're actually a legislator, when you meet the reality, you have to compromise a lot and you're also talking about delivering for your constituents on the things that you were saying as well. Has compromising been difficult? Have you needed to have tough conversations with some of your supporters that wanted you to pass some of your lofty goals a little bit faster than one might expect to actually passed once your legislator? How have those conversations have gone? How do you feel you've been balancing compromising versus, you know, talking to your supporters and saying, alright, guys, I do need more time. How was that conversation? And how does it how does that feel?

Chi Ossé  06:44

Yeah, I mean, I think I'm rather lucky. In the time that I've been in office, I really haven't had to and when I think about the word compromise, especially in the realm of politics, I see it as concessions for values and ideals that an elected official makes and I really don't think I've made any concessions about who I am and what I set out to do. I think I got smarter in terms of how to navigate the political field and how to say things in, you know, a way that, you know, people hear it, and maybe in a sense, that isn't as aggressive as you know, I initially set out to do what I'm doing. But I've moved through my time in office with truth and I think it's only done me well, whether it was my vote on the Adams budget, and being one of six council members to vote against budget, which is a very dangerous thing to do as a only freshman council member in the council, but as a council member in general, because of the ramifications that are presumed to, you know, happen after a vote like that. 

But, you know, throughout every single thing that I said that I would do, in one way shape or form, I have been, you know, showing that through my leadership and you know, I still have gotten a lot done like even there's so much more that that I need to do. You know, I've passed two bills. We've launched a programme this summer where we're expanding free Wi Fi to NYCHA residents and now the mayor is expanding that city wide. We've instituted a weekly food distribution services called Wellness Wednesdays where we're partnering with local nonprofits and city agencies to provide help to our constituents, again, on a weekly basis, you know, started participatory budgeting and my second week in office doing another round right now we have, you know, a community assembly tonight with over 70 RSVPs. You know, I've been moving through again, politics as myself, while also bringing, you know, this creativity and programming, along with my team that has shown my constituency in supporters that were really working, and we're really working through a lens of tackling poverty, which I perceive to be the source of violence and crime and all things bad that exists within my community. I hope I answered your question. 

Dennis Futoryan  09:09

You did and I see, you know, as you talk more and more about your legislative work, you become more animated, more excited, the energies running through you. I see that. Do you feel like your constituents understand the work that you're doing? They understand maybe the complexities of it, for example. I mean, since you voted no, on the Adams budget, various reports have shown that, you know, for those legislators like yourself that voted no, they on average, got less money out of that budget for certain projects and their districts weren't able to get named credit for any of the projects that they ended up getting despite voting no and so when you talk to your constituents, do you feel like they understand kind of, you know, if there were ramifications to your type of vote, do they blame you? How do you feel about those conversations?

Chi Ossé  09:56

That has never been brought up once to me, from my constituents and I mean, when you think about why folks voted no, on the budget, I guess the six of us it was because of the cuts that, you know, many of our schools were seeing, I think parents, you know, my constituents care more about, you know, schools seeing cuts in funding than they do, you know, a small project, maybe park in my neighborhood receiving a million dollars or $2 million and I will say that, you know, punishment was minimal, like, I didn't get credited for some of the projects that the speaker funded. But, I mean, I didn't really run for office to get credit for, you know, things like that. I mean, if she's still funding a project or thing in my neighborhood, that's still good for my neighborhood. But I submitted that project to be funded. So, you know, at the end of the day, I don't really see it as a loss, and my constituents haven't seen it as a loss either. I show up, you know, my team is working day in and day out, whether it's through constituent services, showing up at events, putting together events, people see that we're doing the work and, you know, those that I've seen, you know, have an issue with some of the work that I may be doing, or me as a, you know, elected official, I think I've always had an issue with me, and, you know, my pathway to politics and you know, I believe in the work and we're doing the work, and I've seen my constituents at the many events that we go to recognize that work and are appreciative of the leadership that is exhibited throughout this office.

Dennis Futoryan  11:36

So, to shift gears a little bit, we're, as of the time of this recording, we are under a week from the midterm elections, and a lot of seats are at stake on the local level here in New York. Now, as you do the work, the big themes of the campaigns have been against public safety, regardless of whether or not the stats are correct, when Republicans or Democrats pull out bail reform numbers, do you feel like the criticism has been fair against Democrats that the bail reform laws are too lenient, that the statistics on crime have gone out of control that, you know, the residents of New York City, they don't feel safe? Do you feel like that there's been fair criticism?

Chi Ossé  12:21

Democrats are terrible at messaging and that is not new. It's something that I hope will change. I saw President Biden, you know, speaking at like a rally or press conference yesterday to get out the vote for this election, and when he was speaking about deficits, Americans don't really care about deficits right now. Democrats, both local, statewide, federally, are poor at messaging and I think where the Democrats made the mistake, especially when it came to public safety and bail reform, is that, you know, I've talked to constituents that are pretty moderate and centrist about bail reform, and they understand that, statistically speaking, the bail laws are not, you know, contingent on the perceived increase in crime, or however, you know, you want to call it, but I think the second that Democrats, you know, started conceding to some of these claims that, you know, bail reform was problematic, and opens up even more criticism and gave the right you know, a stronger leg to stand on in terms of attacking the Dems for their public safety, stance and whatnot. You know, I had a constituent messaged me yesterday on Instagram, saying that they voted for me, someone that, you know, was marching in the streets advocating for a reallocation of funds from the NYPD, but they're voting for Lee Zeldin for governor and this is something that is happening across the state, across this country, and, you know, part of it is messaging from Democrats and then another part of it is well, moving in a way that people hate corruption, when it comes to government. People are tired of establishments when it comes to government, and especially whether it's Democrats, whether it's Republicans, and there is, you know, political establishment that exists on the Democratic Party and when you see, you know, a democratic executive spending taxpayer dollars on a bill stadium, like people see that, you know, and on top of, you know, poor messaging from the Democrats are now acting, you know, like a establishment and, like corrupt beings of power and people see that, and that's why we see the Democrats suffering, but, you know, I think a lot of mainstream Democrats would say that it's progressives that are making them lose and, you know, radical policies, and it's really not. It's messaging, and it's counter messaging, and it's making sure that, you know, when Democrats are in leadership, they're doing the right thing rather been trying to please everybody or teeter to moderates in the right.

Dennis Futoryan  15:05

Are you nervous about the midterm elections?

Chi Ossé  15:08

I mean, it's not my race. So, I'm not worried. You know, I think I've done a lot to try to get out the vote for the governor. Am I nervous for her? No. Am I nervous the state of our democracy in terms of you know, Lee Zeldin being elected and, you know, him being, you know, pro insurrection and anti-abortion and LGBTQIA rights, I think that's where I'm more, you know, worried. You know, I'm not voting for Kathy Hochul, I'm voting for, you know, again, the climate, human rights or democracy as a whole. But I would not be surprised if she lost because of, you know, how Democrats from their races and we see them, you know, running stronger and harder campaigns against the left. They do against Republicans.

Dennis Futoryan  15:59

Yeah, it seems like the Republican, well, I mean, it's, maybe it's obvious to someone like you and me, the reporting has shown that, you know, the Republican fervor for this election is, it seems like their excitement is way above Democrats and here in South Brooklyn where I live, at least I see Zeldin signs everywhere. Republican candidates everywhere, but I'm not seeing hopeful signs. I'm not seeing signs for our local democratic officials running for office against them and it's, you know, on my part, I am a little nervous and there has been recent reporting that even here in Brooklyn, the Brooklyn Democratic Party, doesn't seem like they're really doing much at all. What do you think contributes to maybe the lack of democratic excitement? Is it just the messaging? Is it something else? Is it because it's a midterm?

Chi Ossé  16:47

I read an article recently about the governor's leadership and I think it spoke to I think, how establishment Democrats seems to be leading and seem to be, you know, not only leading, but like also how their messaging works. But they tried to please everybody. Democrats are so ordered mainstream Democrats are so scared of being called socialists, and the radical left and, you know, pro crime and stuff and you know, instead of being like we're not and trying to, like, you know, you don't have to say you're not when you're already, like, supporting the police, as a mainstream Democrat, speak about, you know, the rollback. So, you know, gun reform and gun restrictions, like, there's just no, I feel like there's no, like, firm fights and stance that Democrats have, which I think are easy stances to make. But again, they probably don't want to piss off constitutionalists that, you know, like the Second Amendment, and they don't just, it's when you don't pick a side, you lose all around and I think that's where the Democrats have kind of gotten themselves as of late.

Dennis Futoryan  18:05

Do you think it's because Democrats have like a bigger tent than a Republican Party?

Chi Ossé  18:09

They don't have a bigger tent. I don't think they have a bigger tent. I think, you know, when Joe Biden won, it was anti Trump tent, right? And that tent is kind of getting smaller and smaller, because, you know, Trump is not the president and especially in New York State. You know, I think the Trump craze has kind of deflated a little bit, you know, and now people are worried about crime and the economy and things like that and I don't believe that Democrats are responsible for the increase in crime, and the, you know, the impacts and inflation and whatever of our economy. But Democrats are not combating that messaging well enough, in terms of, you know, talking about corporate greed and corporate interests, in terms of how they're, you know, affecting inflation and how the pandemic has, you know, caused an increase in crime, how there's a lack of funding for mental health services. I'm just speaking to a judge last night about just our judicial system and like, we were talking about the issue of bail, like how there could be someone that slap someone on a train and they get arrested and they have to go to court. They have no other you know, if they don't have a criminal record, and they go to court, of course, there'll be led out without bail. I think they shouldn't be led out without bail. They slap someone on the train and you know, they got arrested. I don't think they should go to Rikers and sit in Rikers for over a year. However, when they do get out of jail, there should be you know, some mental health counseling. Why did that person slap a person on the train, you know? Consistent mental health counseling, a safety net for them to You know, go for them to speak about the issues that they're maybe dealing with and that just doesn't exist and you know, in the evening, the only debate that we had for the governor's race of mental health was not even, you know, talked about, and a lot of people across the aisle understand that mental health is, you know, significant issue that our communities and our society is seeing. But, again, I think mainstream Democrats are too busy trying to deflect attacks on the right, rather than counter attacking, impairing those, you know, claims that are made against them with...

Dennis Futoryan  20:38

And when you're saying, deflect, are you referring to abortion after the fall of Roe or just by any other means?

Chi Ossé  20:46

I mean, I think abortion has been like maybe one of the best ways that Democrats have, like, messaged or counter messaged against the Republican Party, but, you know, when you see in these polls that New Yorkers main issues are, you know, crime and the economy. But I think you should be honing in on those main two issues in terms of how Republicans have caused those issues. 

Dennis Futoryan  21:12

Okay and the other question that comes up, as I've been listening to your answer is, you know, since crime is the number one issue and inflation is a close second, I mean, it seems like it's switching on and off every time a new group of New Yorkers are being surveyed. Do you see any sort of maybe messaging problem on the part of progressives also not just mainstream Democrats, because, you know, there was reporting about your colleague, Tiffany Cabán, getting into this rhetorical trouble about instead of calling the cops for any type of event or a certain type of event, we need to kind of practice some sort of restraint. I mean, Republicans kind of grabbed onto that and started running immediately saying, you know, look, you know, progressives, they don't want you calling cops whatsoever and do you feel like maybe there is any kind of messaging issue with on the part of progresses?

Chi Ossé  22:10

I mean, are we talking about Tiffany Cabán, as Tiffany Cabán, or other examples of progressives? You know, taking that approach to...

Dennis Futoryan  22:22

We're talking about in general.

Chi Ossé  22:24

I think Tiffany councilmember Cabán is seen as a pariah of the of the right and I think anything that she says, they'll really blow up out of proportion and, you know, put her as the poster child of, you know, the progressive movement and you know, even if you look at some of the things that she was saying, you know, or what was in that poster? I think a lot of it was, you know, taken out of context, especially given the fact that, you know, person was innocently or EMT was innocently killed in her district during the week that she did post that. You know, I can't speak for her in terms of, you know, the messaging that she put out regarding that. But I mean, if you listen to progressives today, at least from where I am, I don't think anyone's really talking about defund as much as you know, people say that we are, you know, I think that, like, we're so easy to be, like claimed, put out there as the scapegoat for radicalism. But if you really listened to a lot of the issues that the progressive movement or elected are talking about, it really is a lot of advocacy around quality of life issues that exists in New York City, and I guess I can't really speak for the progressive movement, but this is how, you know, I've been speaking but, you know, I believe that housing stability in our city provides safety for New Yorkers. I believe Mental Health Services provides safety for New Yorkers. 

You know, these issues are issues that, you know, are frequently coming into my office and the offices of my colleagues and this is what we've been talking about and championing within our local, you know, institution that is the City Council, so I can't really speak to Tiffany Cabán as being like the, you know, the, the spokesperson for the progressive movement. But I guess, like, I think I don't even think Tiffany's messaging is like incorrect, either. I mean, I saw her yesterday tweet something about she had a bill that was just passed in the council that would provide, you know, government supports, and, I guess a centralization of services for domestic violence survivors, and every single Republican councilmember are voted against that bill and these are people that are supposed to be calling for, you know, law and order and care so much about victims and survivors, but are not voting for a bill that is providing care for, you know, victims and survivors. So, and, you know, that bill was passed through Tiffany Cabán, you know, so I think there's this policy on the right, but also, like, if you look at the work that progressives have been doing, even just in the council, we've been doing a lot of work that is does not pertain to decarceration, or to letting criminals out or defunding the police. We've been tackling quality of life issues that are really catering to working class New Yorkers in communities.

Dennis Futoryan  25:50

I hear what you're saying and so it's just a matter of them of Republicans just grabbing the progressive line and then just running with whatever they can I mean, how's it been working with your handful of Republican colleagues in the council? Like their way out of step from where you are? I mean, it kind of goes back to, you know, having to compromise. But, you know, how's it been, like working with them? I mean, I know you've had some spats with Vicki Paladino, you know?

Chi Ossé  26:21

I'm cordial with most of them. But you know, the Republican Party is, you know, an anti-Democratic Party at this point. You know, we have a party that is supporting, you know, insurrections and Coup de Taas. When they don't agree with the results of an election, you know, you just saw the New York Republican Party this week try to claim that the election in Brazil was fraudulent and they send in the tanks, you know, these are the same people that are, you know, supporting the Republican council members that are in the council right now. So, it's, you know, I'm cordial with them. I think. There are definitely some quality of life issues in terms of sanitation and stuff that we could agree with. The New York, Young Republicans said that not the Republicans will correct that. But I mean, I think that party has is so extreme, you know, it's this party that like claims that they're the party of law and order, but again, they want more guns on our streets, you know, they won't vote for bills that provide services to survivors of domestic violence. It's just a lot of hypocrisy that exists on the Republican Party and you know, again, I'm cordial with some, but I just really do not agree with the Republican or conservative movement in any way, shape, or form.

Dennis Futoryan  27:59

So, let's maybe start to go on the off ramp a little bit on a more optimistic note, because you know, you're going to be fighting the good fight all day, every day and you know, you're being monitored and people are holding your status and your work so far, aside from the recently passed bill to counter rat infestations in your district. Is there anything else down the pipeline that you're really looking forward to that you're working on the new can either hint that or if it's already out there that you'd like to talk about as being that next big thing that you're excited about?

Chi Ossé  28:35

Yeah, I mean, I guess, fiscally speaking in terms of what we're doing with our local budget, we are directing all of our capital and discretionary funds going towards gun violence within this district. So, you know, we're going to be working with nonprofits that specifically do work around, you know, trauma around, you know, outreach and violence interruption. We're spending money on things that our community sees as things that make them feel safer, whether it's lighting projects, whether it's investments in parks where, you know, the kids have nowhere to play with and are, you know, turning to other sources of fun are what they perceive to be fun, rather than, you know, being kids and enjoying their times outside. I'm really looking forward to this initiative that we're doing in terms of putting our money towards, again, yeah, things that make people feel safe. I don't think it's going to fix all of our problems. I'm a local City Council member. I think a lot of our crime problems can be stopped through courage from, you know, federal elected officials that are willing to take on the NRA and firearms but it's something that I'm still very enthusiastic about and really hoping to see come into fruition within the next couple of months and next year.

Dennis Futoryan  29:56

That sounds good. Okay, is there one final message that you want to say to the listeners before we sign off? You know, we're only limited to a short amount of time. I could be talking to you all day. There's questions of course that I wish I could have asked you but we're all limited on time here and of course, we are less than a week away from election day. Do you have any final messages that you want to speak for the listeners

Chi Ossé  30:21

Vote for the entire Democratic ticket on the WFP line. 

Dennis Futoryan  30:25

The Working Families Party Line?

Chi Ossé  30:27

The Working Families Party Line. Make sure Lee Zeldin does not become our next governor.

Dennis Futoryan  30:33

Got it. Copy that. Councilman, thank you so much for joining The 25th Hour news today. I really appreciate your time and hopefully we get to speak more in the future.

Chi Ossé  30:44

Thank you so much.

Dennis Futoryan  30:45

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